A SHORT Q&A SESSION WITH AN ASPIRING ADVENTIST DEFENDER: "ELLEN WHITE" (Part 1)

This is my response to one of the many aspiring SDA defenders. For the sake of the truth, I find time to write this article in an easy Q&A format.

#1. DREEVANT:

Here’s my QUICK response.

1. DOCTOR Obidos quoted biblical reference proving that Jesus was a Prophet and ADVENTISTS have no problem with that, He even quoted Mrs. White’s writings BUT DOCTOR Obidos In his previous article clearly said that Mrs. White was a FALSE prophet, does it mean that DOCTOR Obidos does not believe that all the writings of Mrs. White are false? DOCTOR Obidos was in AGREEMENT of Mrs. White’s writings concerning Jesus as a prophet! Is DOCTOR Obidos doing a cherry picking when it comes to the writings of Mrs. White?

OBIDOS:

a.) Only a few SDA’s believe and understand the significance of why Jesus is also Prophet. Most of the comments from the SDAs seem surprised upon reading my article that proves Jesus is also a prophet. One and foremost of them is bro. Israel Villaver, he begins his statement by asking “What does the Bible say about Jesus, is he a prophet?” which is questioning Jesus as a prophet.

b.) I use Ellen White writings not because I agree with her, but as a credible reference acceptable to any Adventist to prove my point. The SDAs often use the same way every time they prove that even the Roman Catholic Catechisms admits that they are responsible for the change of the Sabbath to Sunday. But no Adventist would say that he agree in all that those books are teaching right?

#2. DREEVANT:

2. DOCTOR Obidos quoted the 28 fundamental beliefs page 60, that means the true Church in this last days , the SDA church is right in claiming that Jesus is a prophet! In other words DOCTOR Obidos is in agreement with SDA fundamental beliefs and also in Mrs. White’s writings

OBIDOS:

My response to this point will be the same as #1, b.) above.

#3. DREEVANT:

3. DOCTOR Obidos quoted lots of biblical references pointing to Jesus as a prophet and then aligning it to Adventist’s beliefs which means there’s no contradiction here.

OBIDOS:

Agree, but bro. Israel Villaver contradicts it. I’m not surprised for he was already kicked out of the SDA world church along with the members of his Loud Cry Ministry. Dreevant got no point here. 

#4.DREEVANT:

4. DOCTOR Obidos stated “Jesus is FAR more greater than the SDA prophet Ellen G. White” yes no doubt with that, when and where did Adventists claimed that Mrs. White is greater than Jesus DOCTOR Obidos?

OBIDOS:

Ellen White can never be equal nor qualified to represent Jesus Christ as a prophet in the last days! She failed the biblical test of a prophet. One example is her false vision recorded in the so-called Camden Vision of 1851[i], which even at this very hour, not even one SDA has the guts to give an airtight response.

#5. DREEVANT:

5. Since it is established that Jesus was or is a prophet, does it mean DOCTOR Obidos that there shall be no other PROPHET/S which shall come in the Christian dispensation?

OBIDOS:

Hebrews 1:2 is very clear and understandable “but in these last days, he has spoken to us by his Son” minus Ellen White &, etc. After the book of Revelation was completed the New Testament canon was then closed. The very words of God spoken by Jesus and the inspired New Testament prophets which eventually form the Scripture was already completed. After this, there is no need for inspired prophets with the authority to speak the very words of God. Wayne Grudem notes that:

“If prophets today, for example, spoke words that we knew were the very words of God, then these words would be equal to Scripture in authority, and we would be obligated to write them down and add them to our Bibles whenever we heard them. But if we are convinced that God stopped causing Scripture to be written when the book of Revelation was completed, then we have to say that this kind of speech, uttering the very words of God, cannot happen today. And any claims to have “new” Scripture, “new” words of God, must be rejected as false.”[ii] 

#6. DREEVANT:

6. Isn’t it true DOCTOR Obidos that the Holy Spirit bestows a gifts which include the Gift of becoming a prophet? Didn’t the bible said DESPISE NOT PROPHESYING?

OBIDOS:

Yes, being a prophet is a gift from God in both the Old and New testaments. At the same time the same passage he quoted also encouraged us to be watchful by testing those who claim to be prophets:

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 (NKJV)

“Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good.”

Unfortunately, Ellen White failed the test. I demonstrated this failure in my previous article, “Ellen White’s False Prophecy#1: The 1851 Camden Vision & 1844 Close of Probation[iii].” For Adventists, it is painful and hard to swallow. The reason why they ignore this issue or even avoid reading my article and rather choose to keep silent.

#7. DREEVANT:

7. After Christ ascended in heaven DOCTOR Obidos, will there be a prophet/s which shall arise in the church or will there be none?

OBIDOS:

This question is almost the same as #5 and #6 so I refer the readers to review it.

#8: DREEVANT:

8. According to Ephesians 4:11-12 [11]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Will there be other prophets other than Jesus or none?

OBIDOS:

How about “apostles”? Why focus only on the “prophets”? Is it because the SDA church doesn’t have any apostles as one of the significant gifts for the church? Did the SDA church have “apostles” or not? Remember that in the New Testament apostles and prophets are work together and cannot be separated. One example to support my view can be found in the same epistle of Paul in Ephesians 2:20:

Ephesians 2:20 (NKJV)

“Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.”

If the SDA insists on the need of the prophet in our time as the one who speaks authoritatively the very words of God like the way the OT prophets did, then how about the apostles? Why the SDA church didn’t recognize any existing apostles in their church?

#9. DREEVANT:

9. Are you now saying DOCTOR Obidos that the Holy Spirit stopped bestowing gifts like the gift of prophecy in these last days? Did the Holy Spirit also stopped bestowing gifts like pastors, teachers , evangelists because He stopped bestowing gifts of a prophet?

OBIDOS:

Why did you skip to mention the “apostles”? It's either you unintentionally missed it or intended to ignore it because you realized that your SDA church doesn’t have apostles in the church. It demonstrates only how the SDAs mishandle the use of the Scriptures since they only select the one that supports their doctrines. Instead of following the Bible, they let the Bible follow their biased thinking.

#10. DREEVANT:

Lastly, Adventist belief remains standing firm, and that, as the remnant of the Woman/church in the new testament, we have the gifts of the holy spirit like: pastors, teachers evangelists, prophet. What a wonderful church I’m belonged, it has Elders, deacons and many more, what a wonderful God we have, by His divine providence he continued to guide the church, bestowed gifts for edifying the body of Christ! I praise God I became an Adventist!

OBIDOS:

Can you really believe that the SDA church is the true church that has the gifts of the Holy Spirit but missing the gift of the apostles? How come you distort the use of Scriptures in Ephesians 4:11-12 by setting aside the gift of apostles which is a very important foundation of the church? This is actually a candid admission that the SDA church is a fake church because one of the distinguishing practices of the church is by devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching:

Acts 2:42 (NIV)

“They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.”

 

Endnotes:

[i] You can read the article in this link https://backtothescriptures.today/ellen-whites-false-prophecy1-the-1851-camden-vision-1844-close-of-probation-english-edition/

[ii]Grudem, Wayne. Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine. Montana: Bits & Bytes, Inc., 2010. Olive Tree Bible Software.

[iii] https://backtothescriptures.today/ellen-whites-false-prophecy1-the-1851-camden-vision-1844-close-of-probation-english-edition/